Added: May 14, 2008
From: wimvandenberghe
Duration: 7:15
Islam's compatibility with democracy, the rule of law and freedom of speech is a subject of immense salience and importance in the early 21st century. In the Royal Society of Arts in London, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who lives under a death threat imposed by Muslim fundamentalists, debates this problem with Timothy Garton Ash, who has in the past criticised her for being an 'enlightenment fundamentalist'. (Dec. 2007) Axess TV link: http://www.axess.se/web/main.nsf/0/79EF074EE9D8C616C12573AC0034371F
Channel: Nonprofit
Tags: ali ash atheism ayaan democracy enlightenment fundamentalism garton hirsi islam religion secularism timothy
Rating: 3.67 (3 ratings) Views: 409 Comments: 10
wimvandenberghe Says:
May 14, 2008 - Yes, the Swedish channel Axess TV that recorded this debate seems to have deemed it necessary to censor both speakers when referring to Mohammed. Too bad, especially when a large part of the debate deals with the right to offend in a secular society.
GraceofGod758 Says:
May 14, 2008 - Everything is OH SO COMPLICATED for this agreeable windbag, Garton. You don't have to take anyone "as they come". You need to raise the bar and the expectations like Ayaan wants to do and IS doing.
jumosha83 Says:
May 16, 2008 - I agree. It's really ironic, isn't it?
i2aymond Says:
May 18, 2008 - They defaced these videos by bleeping out the offensive language.
UbiquitousChe Says:
May 24, 2008 - Ironic - yes. But all the more revealing for it.
UbiquitousChe Says:
May 24, 2008 - One of the interestig thoughts I had with this video in regards to the mention of Ayaan's beauty. I certainly *hope* that I would still respect Ayaan if she wasn't as beautiful as she is, but it's hard to be sure. Her message is bound up in my head with her person - she's become one of my mental icons for liberty and freedom - and I'd be flat out lying if I tried to pretend that seeing her striking eyes staring out at me from the cover of 'Infidel' didn't have a lot to do with it.
UbiquitousChe Says:
May 24, 2008 - However, I have to admit that it's probably the case that I've had an unfair bias against Ash's argument - rather unfairly - merely because his accent gets on my nerves and because I have something of a schoolboy crush on Ayaan, which is really an insult to them both. So I'll be off to watch these videos again to give Ash more of a chance to convince me the second time around. Just thought it was interesting.
shimanopower Says:
Jun 15, 2008 - Yeah, I think he was talking about the Mohammed's marriage to the nine year old. The comment about a more sophisticated version of free speech is hilariously pompous. Perhaps, Soviet gulags are the more sophisticated version of the Fourth Amendment. :)
lovingher001 Says:
Sep 4, 2008 - look around u blind bitch in western countries 10 11 and 12 are giving birth where is stupid words there when it comes to islam you stupid blind bitch bark bark bark like everyone else just get a life
gtarmom Says:
May 14, 2008 - Ash's deleted comment must have been a reference to the "marriage" of the prophet Mohammed to a 9 year old girl. How cowardly to have deleted the comment.